75% des Départements Académiques occupés par les étudiants en Grèce

 

Certaines clauses de la Constituion grecque (mentionnant, notamment, que l'éducation doit être publique et accessible à tous et qu'aucune force de police n'est autorisée à penétrer dans les campus des universités) rendent la mise en oeuvre d'une politique néo-libérale pour les établissements d'éenseignement supérieure particulièrement difficile.

Malgré tout, le gouvernement Conservateur est en train d'essayer de faire passer des changements cruciaux dans le fonctionnement et le rôle des institutions de l'enseignement supérieur du pays. Un soit-disant "comité d'experts", A so-called "committee of experts", désigné directement par le gouvernement a rendu public une liste de propositions de réformes, [En lire plus]:

Mais les étudiants sont déterminés à ne pas abandonner sans lutter. Depuis le 7 juin, 320 départements académiques sont occupés (ce qui représente plus de 75% dans l'ensemble du pays):

Le 8 juin, plus de 15.000 étudiants manifestaient à Athènes et de 7 à 10.000 à Thessalonique. La police anti-émeutes essaya de disperser la manifestation à Athènes avec des gaz lacrymogènes.
Images d'Athènes [ 1 | 2 | 3 ] et Thessalonique

La liste des réformes proposées inclue:

  • La désinscription automatique des élèves après (X fois 1.5 ) années - où X est le nombre d'années minimum pour finir une formation donnée
    (aujourd'hui sans limite)
  • Limitation du nombre de tentatives pour obtenir un module à 4
    (non limité aujourd'hui)
  • Accès facilité de la police aux campus des universités, le but étant, à terme, la substitution aux sanctions propres aux campus
    (à ce jour, la police n'est pas autorisée à se rendre sur les campus, sauf sur demande spécifique d'un "asylum comittee" de l'université, dont le processus de prise de décision est relativement compliqué)
  • Mettre fin à la distribution gratuite des livres académiques aux étudiants
    (depuis la Constitution, l'éducation des états se doit d'être gratuite, les universités doivent fournir les textes nécessaires gratuitement)
  • Mettre fin aux transferts d'étudiants
    (Aujourd'hui, les étudiants répondant à certain critères économiques, sociaux et/ou de santé peuvent demander un transfert vers le département académique le plus proche de leur lieu de résidence)
  • Introduction de postes de managers dans les universités
    (Actuellement, toutes les décisions administratives sont du ressort des personnels administratifs)


Cette liste a été intégrée dans un projet de loi qui, d'après les médias, sera proposé par le gouvernement et le Ministère de l'Education en juillet. Un autre point crucial de ce projet de loi porte sur la réécriture de l'Article 16 de la Constitution (qui précise actuellement que l'éducation doit être publique et gratuite) afin de permettre la création d'Universités Privées dans le pays.

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ADELANTE!!!!!

UNA MÁS 08.Jun.2006 16:05

Ánimo compañer@s. Un abrazo solidario desde el estado español.
¡VUESTRA LUCHA ES LA NUESTRA!¡TOD@S A LA CALLE!

RESISTIR

Cecilia 09.Jun.2006 18:17

LUCHAR POR UNA EDUCACIÓN PÚBLICA Y GRATUITA EN TODO EL MUNDO
PESE A QUIEN LE PESE
DESDE MÉXICO LOS APOYAMOS EN SU LUCHA

No Police? Criminal heaven!

Jim 09.Jun.2006 21:22

So police can't go on campus? Wow! I could rape and kill and they couldn't arrest me! I'm going to Greece!

hi jim

:) 09.Jun.2006 22:50

just another sick bastard is what you are...

support from Mexico

UNAM student 10.Jun.2006 05:40

From Mexico to Greece a very big greeting to all strugles against all kind of reforms against public and free education.

Our languages and countries' territorries are different but the global economic and politic system that we resist from Mexico, Chile, Greece and all the world are the same.

consideration...

monkey 11.Jun.2006 10:59

Bulleted list of government proposals is debatable. Some bullets
(proposals) from my personal opinion shouldn't represent an obstacle to any
student, yet an improvement. This statement of mine, however has to be
taken with caution.
Having a time-limit on your studies and a time limit on finishing some or
all of the courses from my side is not a negative change yet rather a
positive one. Universities produce human resources. After some time and
systematic evaluation those human resources are placed inside the
Industries of the cities (areas/sectors).
In case someone takes 4,5 times to finish a course, it is extremely
considerable that person might not be suitable for a certain job position,
not to mention an entire academic education lasting nearly a decade (over
twice as much as from the usual 4 year default time). Education as such,
being free or not, is that greatest privilege some will encounter. Doing
any job fast or faster is an advantage. Of or the greatest advantage in
today's society regardless of how you view it. (looking in the past, speed
has been an advantage all through the history of the globe, speaking of
work efficiency). To conclude, I view the time discipline positively, as it
is what happens here as well (Croatia).
Third bullet (police entering University premises) is an extremely a
negative one and should be negotiated with the government without
excludevely. (have written more on this yesterday though the machine ate my
comment).
Decline free Book distribution is a negative one, no argue. Though, as
connecting to the first two bullets, a student would have to show a level of responsibility and involvment to actualy get to the privileges (books,
food, accomodation, etc.) ,speaking of longer period of time, while for
starters those should be attributed to all (besides to students who are in
fact already paying for their studies). See, I've killed myself of work 2nd
semester and then I get to meet a person who has a student accomodation,
food and privileges not doing a bare 3% of what was my involvment, living
less than 5 minutes walk from the uni-building yet me *(and us lot) loose
up to 2/3 hours a day on jus to get to the university. [though was always
gainst these kind of comparisons, yet it portrays the issues to a degree if
you'd agree].
Evaluation should happen weekly, no less. Books are not cheap. If you
haven't filled in your quote of points (to speak so, not the ECTS, or ICTS slow justice/legal system which enables great
amount of corruption. Latter sentence introducing the last bullet.
Managers.
It would be best if a university is divided amongst (at lest) several
corporations, however at every point of education student should be free to stay out of any political option those corporations are establishing inside
a sector. By default, this is impossible to achieve since the only purpose of those corps is to gain hold of human resources and employ them best
suiting their needs worldwide. This IS actualy happening since after ww2 though at some regions after 1989/1990. ,yet nowhere near transparency that
you may witness today, which is nowhere near the transparency in countries
where you actualy may talk about the Industrial population of the campuses.
Extreme percaution while handling an implementaion of new laws(directives) on the edge of student protests however shows students and their concern in a positive light.
The minute someone starts to talk instad of you, is the time for you to
speak out for yourself. European Union as such, which has in fact introduced this law is also divided amongst at least hundreds of the strongest corporations. The way to
stay out (which I as well tend to) is not to reject it yet to establish an
organization within students and former students to benefit the life of the
university by providing a strong alternative to any possible measures or
directives someone may came up with in that way leaving the space for
actions and sollutions independent of corporative ones.
That would require knowledge and skills amongst students and their
communities which would hardly be gained by studying over 8,9,10 years and
definitely not gained by lazyness.
Last thing everyone wants is a riot. Yet, if comes, only sharp mind, wisdom
and knowledge applied thru experience into skill will eventualy brake those
cordons.

Vedran Skocen aka Captain Monkey of the ADF.
University of Zagreb, Faculty of Philosophy [Ivana Lucica 3], Department of

Philosophy.

consideration...

monkey 11.Jun.2006 13:26

Right. ‘It’ ate my article again.
Not just that. 3 days ago my 5th website is disabled and can’t post my radio shows in over 6 months now. Here it goes take 2. so notifying the admin to delete the previous post of mine for the sake of better view.
M

 http://www.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/840420.shtml

The list of proposed changes include:

* De-registration of students after (X times 1,5) years - where X is the minimum number of years required for completion of their course
(now unlimited)
* Limiting the number of times allowed to sit for a module to four
(now unlimited)
* Allowing for easier police access to university grounds, the long-term aim being the complete erasure of campus sanction
(to date, police are not allowed to enter university property unless specifically instructed to do so by the university's "asylum committee", with the latter's decision-making process being rather complex)
* To end the free distribution of academic books to students
(since the Constitution states education has to be free for all, universities have to provide required readings to their students free of charge)
* To end student transfers
(To date, students meeting certain economic, social and/or health criteria can apply for a transfer to the academic department closest to their area of residence)
* To introduce managerial positions in the universities
(To date, all administrative decisions fall under the juridistiction of academic staff)



The above have been incorporated into a law proposal which, according to media reports, will be brought forward by the government and the Education Ministry in July. Another crucial point of the proposed law includes the editing of Article 16 of the Constitution (currently stating that all education should be public and free for all) in order to allow for the foundation of Private Universities in the country.


>> Bulleted list of government proposals is debatable. Some bullets (proposals) from my personal opinion shouldn't represent an obstacle to any student, yet an improvement. This statement of mine, however has to be taken with caution.
Having a time-limit on your studies and a time limit on finishing some or all of the courses from my side is not a negative change yet rather a positive one. Universities produce human resources. After some time and systematic evaluation those human resources are placed inside the Industries of the cities (areas/sectors).
In case someone takes 4,5 times to finish a course, it is extremely considerable that person might not be suitable for a certain job position, not to mention an entire academic education lasting nearly a decade (over twice as much as from the usual 4 year default time). Education as such, being free or not, is that greatest privilege some will encounter. Doing any job fast or faster is an advantage. Of or the greatest advantage in today's society regardless of how you view it. (looking in the past, speed has been an advantage all through the history of the globe, speaking of work efficiency). To conclude, I view the time discipline positively, as it is what happens here as well (Croatia).
Third bullet (police entering University premises) is an extremely a negative one and should be negotiated with the government without excludevely. (have written more on this yesterday though the machine ate my comment).
Decline free Book distribution is a negative one, no argue. Though, as connecting to the first two bullets, a student would have to show a level of responsibility and involvment to actualy get to the privileges (books, food, accomodation, etc.) ,speaking of longer period of time, while for starters those should be attributed to all (besides to students who are in fact already paying for their studies). See, I've killed myself of work 2nd semester and then I get to meet a person who has a student accomodation, food and privileges not doing a bare 3% of what was my involvment, living less than 5 minutes walk from the uni-building yet me *(and us lot) loose up to 2/3 hours a day on jus to get to the university. [though was always gainst these kind of comparisons, yet it portrays the issues to a degree if you'd agree].
Evaluation should happen weekly, no less. Books are not cheap. If you haven't filled in your quote of points (to speak so, not the ECTS, or ICTS slow justice/legal system which enables great amount of corruption. Latter sentence introducing the last bullet. Managers.
It would be best if a university is divided amongst (at lest) several corporations, however at every point of education student should be free to stay out of any political option those corporations are establishing inside a sector. By default, this is impossible to achieve since the only purpose of those corps is to gain hold of human resources and employ them best suiting their needs worldwide. This IS actualy happening since after ww2 though at some regions after 1989/1990. ,yet nowhere near transparency that you may witness today, which is nowhere near the transparency in countries where you actualy may talk about the Industrial population of the campuses.
Extreme percaution while handling an implementaion of new laws(directives) on the edge of student protests however shows students and their concern in a positive light.
The minute someone starts to talk instad of you, is the time for you to speak out for yourself.
European Union as such, which has in fact introduced this law is also divided amongst at least hundreds of the strongest corporations. The way to stay out (which I as well tend to) is not to reject it yet to establish an organization within students and former students to benefit the life of the university by providing a strong alternative to any possible measures or directives someone may came up with in that way leaving the space for actions and sollutions independent of corporative ones.
That would require knowledge and skills amongst students and their communities which would hardly be gained by studying over 8,9,10 years and definitely not gained by lazyness.
Last thing everyone wants is a riot. Yet, if comes, only sharp mind, wisdom and knowledge applied thru experience into skill will eventualy brake those cordons.

Vedran Skocen aka Captain Monkey of the ADF.
University of Zagreb, Faculty of Philosophy [Ivana Lucica 3], Department of Philosophy. <<

About police in campus

littleeye 11.Jun.2006 15:46

When crimes against life are commited or a rape, then police can go into campus, in order to arrest the criminal, or prevent the crime. The logic behind police not being able to go into campus is so that ideas and people can move, talk and think freely in any case, even if what they think or say is against the current political system.

little_eye reply.

monkey 11.Jun.2006 21:15

multi ownership
multi ownership

I'd counter-propose a university security. Unarmed. Not only to escort the 'rapists' for the police to arrest outside the uni., also to prevent and/or investigate those and other highly rated crimes.
So, campus-security in communication with the police yet all the information they would gather is restrictively available only for them unless the order issued from the higher force-authorities (special police and military). In other cases, the information collected on the students is the belonging of the industrial security [which has the greater, both authority and range of actions from the police anyway].
Get a list of security agencies and tell your university administrators to employ them instead of either: incompetent, law breaking police informants or ex-police officers that would misuse your student information and cause you trouble for acts suchas civil disobayance and other more-less similar charge/penalty free social offences or would commit the 'rape' or other crimes themselves in the first place holding a position to cover it all up.
If you can't afford it, get the former or older students with no police records to finish martial arts courses, first aid, digital survailance, data-processing, paperwork, etc. and get to work as a security themselves lacking money for the professional security agencies.
Securities agencies do have a policy of being corp-free. That is, they protect/guard or even intervene for their clients (either an individual, a group, a company, an institute, etc.). Corporations do have their own security, that is the security you want to avoid at your campuses since you gonna get up to 200% more opression than you have from your local police station visiting you every week, and collecting your information/data.
Every security agency as such, is corp-free to avoid cross-interest since it obligates to protect multiple clients, and , if corporate would eventualy crack/split on itself.
Don't get me wrong here again.
You employ say Tiger-Shield (random made-up name) sec. agency to protect your university. That agency has hundreds (say) of other buildings to protect. Some may be owned (most definitely) by this or that corporation. However, all the business and contracts and missions they do are reasonably separated from one another and one sec. agency cannot be owned by a corp. doing business in civil sector yet only a military or specified industrial security corporation (if it's a corporation). However, once you establish a military or industrial security corp. you may expand your business to the civil sector as well though NOT vice versa.
Civil Corporation may never turn into a military one (it's illegal) tho other way around is legal. This opens a question of the base-core funds to make a company. Those funds must have their origin examined and one cannot get sponsored from one corp. to build another.
The problem seems to be that you might have a military corporation that has expanded it's business to a civil sector of the society. That corporation (being as well a civil one) may take over your university providing the security service at the same time. That looks like another prison camp, no less. So you need to go for a variety and mixture in this corp. world to avoid this much control. If the European Union law (which you should check and hopefuly have b4 moving on with your protests) or your .gov law is restricting/limiting the ownership (privatization) of an educational institution to one or exclusevely one owner/company/corporation, you should take your guns out and shoot without hesitation. (try plastic ones first, jus ta scare them off or make em laugh then Baym bang! ;)
Multiple owner (either a company , individuals or corporations) is far far better than having jus one. All the staff is therefore split in 2,3,4 parts. (security, cleaning people, building maintanance, time scheldule, parking lot, etc.). I'm tellin you if you have only 1 owner you need to take them down. Get your funds (students) and invest. I'm sure some of you knows a lawyer, an accountant and a PR. That's rather sufficient for starters.
However, both students and the 'teaching-staff' -> the Faculty must be corp free. Faculty is there to educate you, guide you, be your passenger and suggest you. THe industrial people are there to offer you jobs and offers (hopefuly), while the administration (managers) are there to take care of the finances, time scheldule, legal disputes, new owner and/or other offers, etc. The leadership tends to change every now and then depending (of the other things) on the work of the 'little industrial people' as well and the points they've accumulated to ensure some things happen or not happen.
System changes are nasty. Specialy if caught unprepared. It jus washes you away then. Students (and I'm so glad) are the problem, always since they actualy are educated as opposite to the masses who are only opinioned.

vedran skocen aka monkey of the ADF (captain)

SIGAN LUCHANDO !

daniel ruilova 12.Jun.2006 00:18

hola
soy daniel .. tengo 15 años
y soy de chile .. en el 68 los universitarios chilenos lograron la educacion gratuita .. pero eso se perdio con la dictadura de 17 años que tuvimos ( 73 - 90 ) .. ahora como estudiantes secundarios estamos luchando por que la educacion secundaria se " desprivatize" .. logramos crear una comision que reforme la ley pero para lograrlo tuvimos que estar en tomas y movilizaciones de miles de estudiantes ..
la lucha por una educacion de calidad y gratuita es permanente y ustedes no deben permitir que su educacion sea vendida a los empresario .. luchen .. tomense las universidades y salgan a las calles .. exijan mantener y potenciar su educacion estatal .. no pierdan lo que tienen como lo perdimos aca en chile porque asi se evitan que años despues salgan otros compañeros pidiendo recuperar lo perdido ..
luchen y no cedan ningun paso !
desde chile mis mas sinceras felicitaciones
adios !

monkey reply

littleeye 12.Jun.2006 15:34

sorry, forgot to mention, that there is already security guards in every campus. So that is not a problem. If they see a crime against life they can call the police and the police can enter without any other permission. But only in these cases (rapes, crimes against life and such).

little_eye reply

monkey 12.Jun.2006 21:24

As I've said, L.E. , Industrial Security having wider authority , does not ask for the police. On the controary, police may call for Industrial Security to sort out things.

please, more background

Mike S. 19.Jun.2006 05:51

For us foreigners, could someone give more background and explain what the implications of these changes are "on the ground" for students? Does the restriction on police entry to campus mean that people are freer to promote radical politics or drink alcohol or light bonfires or use drugs or read pornography on the Internet than outside? Are the long-term (more than 1.5X term students) simply dullards, or do they have some sort of interesting subculture?

I found the previous 'consideration...' commenters remarks amusing - universities exist to produce human resources efficiently and all that - because THAT, my friends, is what the article's author means by the "neoliberal agenda"! That he states these things so categorically, without thought of any other model, illustrates how far things have gone that way in many places.

HARDLY AMUSING

vedran skocen aka captain monkey 19.Jun.2006 19:07

me
me

me as a fresh graduate
me as a fresh graduate

Not really, no. Neo-liberal agenda as being percieved negative from the author of the original article is considerining that, however, the bare naked production of human resources, is negative, no argue. In the exact way of being horrid negative as doing absolutely nothing to educate yourself for over 10 years. The horror of those 2 is such you may not even graduate it and say once is more or lesser worse than other. Both are true horror.
Efficient studying (improvement of studying) as I have been stating it in my ‘consideration’ is positive from my reasoning. If you’re asked to meet the deadlines, for instance, you , most definitely would have to build up a more responsible *at lest* approach to your tasks and improve the speed for you to finish your work which is far more better when to compete the very NEO-nazi opressors all 3 of us have sucessfully transpose.
Even if the opressor itself would offer you training, finding no alternative you should use the facility and the databases and the human resources (teachers, staff) to educate yourself, to strike back, if to sabotage from the inside even better. Knowing the hardest way to ‘eliminate’ *metaphor someone is using his.her.its weapon, you only should gain skills at their turf hopefuly to employ yourself within the resistance.
Observing it like this it is nothing new. What I think is the reason for the rebellion in the first place *now thought by the past may strike effectively. [as within any system ‘change’. New Promisses clash with the clairvoyancy of no change at all, hence seeing the Lie as awfull as it is, the fury is to unleash…
Mike, how would you elaborate on time-rules, deadlines if you will, for one *(a student), hell even both *professor.doctor & student to meet may be a negative, backward, non improvement comparing to the previous system?
Isn’t there too much of the control in the organized chaos of apparently to be ‘responsibility-free’ studying in which indeed you may more effectively PRODUCE your servants?
If played well, this system would let you to strike back since all would be a subject to the same rules?
Human resource, as a phrase may sound mechanicaly, machinery cold and awfull. So change it with the student/human potential if annoyed by the cold steel.
Universities are there to educate you. Once educated, would (hopefuly), improve your job-seeking, which, if you haven’t realized yet enables food, condoms, ink, soap an’ all those things NO ONE is gonna let you use for free NOR FUCKING SHOULDN’T MAN!
Competition is too large > education is a privilege. Some selection is ought to happen. Unless your prepared for some hard work stay living with your momma for some more till you sort out you need to provide and support yourself, realizing your not either in your momma’s belly nor at her titties anymore.
Who the hell is gonna have patience with people studying so long_? Why the hell students think they;’re sucha value anyway? Fuck me go an teach for only 5 years you wont hear anythin new, only variations. No one is that special It’s jus work, gaining skills,. And if to own any company I’d employ responsible people who do their work fast instead of some lazy people who somehow gained their degree.
Education *that’s higher education* is not an obligatory. So if decided to be lazy or whatever human being you have chosen to be, do so. Look at mormons or whatever tho most likely to end up inside a gang. Let me jus tell you somethin else man. Join the gang while studying for 10 years and expect to get shot within minutes.
Non-educated gangs make neither profit nor an impact. Non-educated gang cant steal without getting caught, can’t hide, can’t hack, cant’ bomb, nothin man.
And the difference *allow me* between a gang who has an average higher education studying time round 10 years and a gang of doctors is in the fact that not only the latter would set and blast a bomb FASTER yet would probably blame it all on the first one. So there you go with your human resources man. Stupid people ARE A WEALTHY HUMAN RESOURCE. Get em some whores and coupla lines of coke those retards would go an kill anyone you like. Trust me. Trust me, man.
I vote for educated (properly educated people), including gangs since favoring silent kills rather than a drugged-up shotgun-rednex from an interesting subculture on a shooting spree on my pathway.
If you cant get it 2 times in a row, why the hell should you even bother goin for the third year of the same s**t?
What you… didn’t found nuff time to read up or you couldn’t understand maths in 2 years man?, so tell me, man, show me ANY, ANY company out there that would employ you while knowing that.
It’s not a fault to fail. Failed once, failed twice. Ok. Tho admit yourself it’s over. Over for the market competition. Coz the jobs are taken by those finished their tasks within 2 years of time *or whatever the time rule is/may be.
If ya need to be a student, get some IDs man I got 3 student ID’s from various universities man, get in there n teach, cut your hair n shit an say youre 22 as everyone does.
WE ARE NOT RUNNING FOR RIOTS, THOUGH WHEN WE MAKE ONE PEOPLE USUALY RUN AWAY FROM US.
Captain Monkey, TriasArtGroup Brigade, *Zagreb 1999.-2006. [tech crew]
Alias Vedran Skocen, University of Zagreb, Faculty of Philosophy, Department of Philosophy.
Asian Dub Foundation Education lecturer. [hacking 101]. *doctor’s degree. May 2005.
It does not mean a goddam thing all this time I’d be satisfied with gluing posters on the street if to fail my education. Simply coz I’ve failed. Educate Yourself. Inside outside an institution, whatever, get skills and strike, get money and buy food. Or
grow your own, yeah whatever. Don’t die.
While on it all, man, get to realize NEO-liberalism becomes a failed political concept only and just only WHEN you PROOVE so.
Of all of the questions in this paragraph, for you to answer Mike, tell me is there a political concept being positive and disrespecting work acquired skills at the same time? Last time: NEO-liberalism and NEO-liberalism under a disguise of a neo-nazism or any totalitarian pol. Concept is failed, negative one ONLY and just ONLY if it is TRANSPOSED AS SUCH.
Generaly, by the book neo liberalism is a definition. It is applied nowehere as such. Tho any application of it within a society depends on a context. Etc. etc.
Remarks to a general concept (as stripped, no disguise) of neo.r. from my reasoning would be military expansure, police exspansure, enhanced opression, fixing of the laws in favor to the rich, bad ganja, etc.
As it comes to education, of course the capital will fix the rules. Some of those rules, however, regardless of being attributed to a political concept are positive ones.
Let’s jus cut this crap Mike and proceed to LEVEL 2.
That’s from inside a changed institution .(university).
K firstall I cant afford a legal Operating System. Dunno whom to post that, however haven’t seen a legal OS on an entire university as well, so.
Beyond that, approaching level 2 is the EXPECTANCIES.
What is a student expected to do or, to put it realy nicely -> ACTION DIRECTION.
Where, and where exactly will your student actions be directed. Towards what, whom, and HOW.
If you gather a great amount of cattle at your university yo should, firstofall, proove it and then tell it to someone who could do somethin’ bout it.
Directing, aiming students towards, should not be pre-designed or, designed as they go to such degree it would deny freedom of choice, to put it that blatantly. Moreso, the very idea of education goes from a standpoint of freedom in education, so this concept is self-contradictory to itself since education would deny itself. If that IS the case, however, in needs to be reported to the higher educational instances not necessarily be within the country’s borders [here onwards all depends on just to which extent the country’s borders are opened in the first place].
Neo-liberalists, are not stupid. That is why they are powerfull of other things (capital, military/police agencies, pharmacy, publich health care, etc.), you won’t feel put aside at any point of your education. They would obay and go by the rules, no argue. Education is free (not tuition free, yet choice.approach free).
What comes after you finish your education, become a useful human resource is of an interest to the neo-liberalists. That is why it’s in their best interest to make educational system as best as possible. You notice trouble begins once you earn your degree, that is, job-finding part is impaired by your CHOICES.
So out of 5 persons all having earned the same degree (either bach. Masters or PhD), the ones getting jobs offered (highest salaries) would be ones with bright white teeth, forhead logo, tv consuming, greedy money seeking, ganja clean, voting body (no need to go further).
Though, all of them would be EDUCATED. Applying their education and skills is left to them to decide. No one may impose the way you will use your education (once gained) nor blackmail you directly [only via social system; benefits, etc.], Whether their skills should be applied in such way it would enable earning more money or gaining money and money non related benefits is left upon them to decide.
Money non related benefits would be better job positions, for instance, or a better skool for your kids, though it eventualy all leads to money (endless circulation of the capital within sectors).
Imagine a possible world all the people are high-educated would pronounce the selection of people in favor to strongest corporations (servants) so it is pheudalism being awoken, however, there’s a slight difference. While in feudalism, the opressed peasants were under educated that is not the case in this imaginative world all the people are educated.
However, it is never nor could ever possibly be a MUST. A demand. Once it becomes, it is pure slavery. If an education is not free, then it’s not an education it’s an educational failure. You may not educate a person who is not free. You may load it with this or that, get to do this or that, nor that individual is not educated, nor, to speak in frightening terms, nor does represent a valid human resource.
As opposite to the latter imaginative world, now imagine a world no one is educated in. (any level you wish, if you like go back to the times when lightning a fire have been considered a higher-education). Monkey would have to came up with education, now wouldn’t he/she? Little monkey, perhaps?
Improving your enviroment by improving yourself?
There is no such world no one would be educated in, since in such world, there would be no communication possible. An’ shit.
Gotta stop this.
Read it if you will, many things are bein’ brought up, might discus it further. (many levels). Is a complex topic.
Monkey man,

Mike you're a copper, checked.

captain monkey 20.Jun.2006 02:11



Oh, oh, sorry, Mike. Alternative Educational models.
Let’s dress up as numbers and one of us dress as a plus or a minus and some dress as letters and make a goddam hippy education equation.
F****n’ hippy!
Or of the wors f***n’ militant hippies.
What haven’t you understood, man?
You want to educate yourself for free and make it last at least 10 years?
Read this sentence out loud.
Then afterwards, let me guess. You wanna be kool and preferably have enough money to support your koolness? Of course, nothin’ bad ever to happen to you without you personaly not giving a slightest damn about bad not to happen as you’ve LEARNT while educating yourself for an entire decade of not giving a damn.
Get a wooden shanti’ yo hippy and make some REAAAL poetry.
I am nowhere near being vain as you are, Mike since there is not much of being more vain than to expect to be repeditly asked to try again.
ALTERNATIVE 1: my education is free. I’m in first semester. I’ve failed. Lemme try again. OK.
I’ve failed the first semester for the second time. Let me try again. OK
Oops! Failed again. Lemme bloody try it again for the third time. OK
GEE! A wonderous success!
Lemme do the same with the 3d semester and ummm… 4th..
Geee. Now I got some bloody potential to actualy write a doctor’s degree at the age of 28 now don’t I?
Or no, Mike, I’m sure we may wait untill you’re 38.
Lemme think of another alternative you may fancy more.
Hi my name is Mike. I’m at university and I donwanna do anything tho let me just get that paper.
Ok Mike, certainly, there you go.
Now, you wouldn’t expect me to study with you man, now would you? Wanna try to calculate the average scores and work efficiency according to this alternative approach?
I’m talking about the time. It cannot possibly be unlimited. How the hell should all the one who have graduated before you be valued better?
And if they shouldn’t have, wouldn’t that be unfair to them? Who actualy have finished their higher education in 4-6 years of time?
According to you, it shouldn’t. Your hippy attitude is to tell, basicaly, it does not matter at all, just who finished the test first, nor it matters who finished the course first, semester, a year, it does not matter who of the generation graduated amongst first. I know you don’t understand this. You actualy are sucha egalitarian genius you would equalize or, as you see it, bring justice to the educational system by not making a difference between the ones who finished first or last.
I guess your points wouldn’t mean anything, either, now wouldn’t they?
Why should they, we are all equal, we all have potential. Don’t even need to realize our potential, screw that, we all HAVE ONE.
‘Hey ma’am. I got potential.’
There you go, son.
‘Thanks, ma’am.’
There’s another alternative.
Hey, yo yo I GOT POTENTIAL.
Excellent, now just sit over there, since we’re all equal, all the one, naa mean?!, jus sit and wait, all gonna work out just fine for you, nothin to worry about. [here’s that sucking on your mommas or if grown up so replaced your mommas with you … ok ok I won’t.]
Or some hippy asian fakery alternatives. Let’s jus sit somewhere burn some sticks , smoke ganja and wait for the bloody enlightement. When we get hungry, gonna spend some of our allowance at the [no less] The Mall.
Get real, bitch. Nothing worse than a stupid support, man.
Watch who you stand by. Ask around the right people from the French Brigades, since we’re bringin’ it up again.
And your bloody sentence, is said no less yet on June 2006th [!2006!] and it goes: That he states these things so categorically, without thought of any other model, illustrates how far things have gone that way in many places.
As contemporary as yesterday, man. Try all the places aka globe is f***ed. The parts where the glob. And the processes like this are to be understood as contemporary (suchas over here I am) means that these areas have been a subject to a far more worse opression of the society [check out bloody Balkan civil wars 1990-2002, that’s 12 years of a bloody war and it still goes on, so wtf, man?!)
JUST HOW FAR HAVE THEY GONE?!
What you mad? How FAR? Now, I’m gonna be nice to you if you’re Romanian, dude. If not, then your bloody stupid, man. JUST HOW FAR?!
Over here, it started officialy LAST BLOODY FALL TERM. An I been here on the Balkans ever since 1999. So, fuck you!
People have waited for this, trust me. The FISTFULL!
Other have been sucking on a fatass sausage for even over a decade. Getting PhD for not doin’ jack shit and get to have head-spinnin’ salaries, for guess again: Not doing a jack shit again yet robbing bloody people.
So FUCK YOU!
I got my phD recognized last f***n summer after having to finish 1 year of highschool since only havin’ 2 (been kicked outta tho finished military). Imagine just how nice it was to have all that potential with me, in me, yet get to be ordered by fake doctors. *deep breath* excellent. Couldn’t get a job nowhere since not even havin’ highschool, could only do military related, not civil sector and imagine just where. Bloody middle war zone beauty Balkans, no less.
Tell me about your education, Mike. Come as you are or don’t bloody come at all. Be vain in how much of yourself you give. Give me an alternative. Give me your education timeline. Give me your time scheldule. Anything. To start with. Get this conversation more real. What are we supposed to do with your 3 line comment?

Does the restriction on police entry to campus mean that people are freer to promote radical politics or drink alcohol or light bonfires or use drugs or read pornography on the Internet than outside?
Police restriction entry is being ‘proposed’ by the rebels, Mike, NOT the government. So much on the NEO-liberalism.
Promotion of radical politics? Wahta would that be? Mike, gimme 5 sentences on radical politics.
Drink alcool an use drugs. If ya don’t know how to do it discretely, I’d suggest not doing it at all even if being your most adorable blink180 hero lookalike.
If to smash bottles, go to a deserted subway, a construction site deserted or a desert like your hippies, man.
From here I’d hardly conclude you should be given any sort of drugs. Your attitudes may expand (which none of us want) or even give you courage to actualy practice your anti-neo-liberalism radical politics, sorry to say. Stick with the skool-yard for now, after dark, learn to enjoy yourself, once to qualify to smoke @ campus (funny word), then do so, youd jus get inna way otherwise, thinking it’s cool or that you are a somewhat special, no less.
Oh yeah, Mike. For semester 2 readings I’d suggest pornography, no less. Deep throat volumes 1-4 are an obligatory literature. Then we sit in a circle, light a bone fire and practice more asian fakery, not to forget ganja, of course, and jus wait, just wait Mike, FOR THE ENLIGHTEMENT.



Are the long-term (more than 1.5X term students) simply dullards, or do they have some sort of interesting subculture?
They’re the scientists. They’ve actualy invented the bonefire circle.
Right news flash, Mike, the campuses have expanded to the outside as well, meaning once having a privilege of actualy calling yourself a student, you’d get to adopt some decent behaviour @ home, streets, clubs, wherever, whenever you are as opposite to downloading pornography and smoking ganja @ the bonefire. Getting to F**k someone, would be much more appreciated than squizzin’ yourself and if to hold or sort out a relationship would be warmly acknowledged. Building up a proper work-behave attitude is of primary objectives. These so do not include wearing a sweater with the skool’s logo nor include snobism nor include the student clubs an all that crap. Of the small things so hard to accomplish it includes looking straight up while talking to someone and speak loudly enough to be heard. [those are hard tasks it’s much more easier to join a club and jerk around with some logo filled with fake importance feedback without whom you wouldn’t be able to look straight up in the eyes. Those are to respect yourself. Joining a club is to expect to be respected withouh having any respect for yourself.
Once you learn just when, from whom and most importantly WHY you should hide either your bottle or a joint makes you smart enough to use drugs. So keep writing notes for now and summon your discoveries it in an essay entitled ‘Brown Bag 101’ for us to see what you come up with. [not to long, trust me, NO ONE wants to read long student papers since they 10 times as boring as all those books you don’t want to read in the first place.’
It’s boring Mike. Student papers are as boring as hell.
Annai be a rebel n write 30 pages. Give it a go. Hecka write 200.
It’s upon you to decide whether it’s crap or not. Though all the people of the world prefer summaries rather than the Mike’s handbook into NEO-liberalism or just about anything mostly since everyone already knows this stuff and youre bringing nothing new whatsoever. It’s not even about what you know it’s about what you do with what you know and what you do about not knowing. No one can teach you a goddam thing besides yourself. A guidance, a valuation, EVALUATION, Mike , without whom *following your hippy alternative, alls work would be equaly valued, that is no one would be valued at all. Puberty hippy, that is what YOU are, everythin’s free and the last important thing *if there is such word as an importance with you* is no less yet the time itself.
Tell me Mike, how the hell are educational instutution to support themselves financialy if the education is free?
Can’t you see, that as long is it’s free, you can’t even complain about anything since there’s no ownership. If somethin’s yours [if state’s and youre a part of the state], how the hell you complain about it *that’s communism 101 for all you trendy shirt wearing m********s.
They wouldn’t even let you rent it and you still wouldn’t see the difference since the only thing you gathered from a leaflet bout the neo-nationalism or liberalism, whatever, seems to be that money as such is bad.
Well strip naked, bitch, and cut a sheep n make yourself a goodam pants and while at it, suck some of it’s titties (cant get away from the titties now, cant you?), suck some of that milk man. Goddam hippy!
Retards at our university to officialy present it @ prime time National TV as well as holding a club were protesting against the scholarship bein’ raised up while approx. 20% of the students at the Faculty actualy pay for their right to educate themselves there.
Nor them, nor bloody you understand that the building has to be invested in, the staff has to be provided with paychecks each week or a month. How the hell should an university manage that having their students to be buncha lazy retards? If the students would work and get some funds circulating from the campus to the outs and vice versa, perhaps the scholarship wouldn’t be so high, now wouldn’t they? But nooo. Lemme jus go there with my dad’s jeep, fuck everythin’ that walks and smokea lot of ganja, preferably complain about the schoolarship bein raised (as they are every bloody year, sometimes they even go down tho the students are so used to protesting that they claim they went up so the administration lets them be the fools again, now am I right?).
You got to have a pre-education b4 entering the university. If not and if do, whether upon decides you take the entry test.
If sufficient in points, you won’t have to pay a dime. If not having sufficient points, the faculty wouldn’t take you if they wouldn’t need money in the first place, who the hell needs 4,000 students anyway for a place of nearly 1,million people, no one ever gets to work out since they barely speak any foreign language nor know how to mime or anything.
You are paying the educational institution to let you educate yourself thru their offer, through their BUSINESS they do to support both Themselves AND you. You get NOTHING. You MAY EARN the priceless though and it’s called the job offer, Mike. Yes, even in this foookin neo-liberalism. ~
You havent even ever had a job. Try to get ajob anywhere and not doin nothin. Or takin 20 minutes to sweep the floor? Huh? Id employ someone else or applied after seeing sucha beauty worker.
Check out www.ups.com and see what sorting out packages is all about, man.
You wanna wash the dishes for an hour? I bet a detergent would help. Yeah that one with that girl with TITS again holdin it with a bright smile.
Yeh, you’d definitely need a f***n masters degree to hold a detergent and smile. Dude, if you’re not working while studying then you’re expected to give no less yet 40 working hours a week and not a single second more and not a single second less. That’s timing 101. Workers’ rights.
Students image of themselves being free, kool, young and overall bright intelligent people everyone envy rather than WORKERS, you MIKE MAY THANK TO THE NEO-LIBERALISM LIVING INSIDE YOUR! HEAD YOU NOT BEING AWARE OFF FOR A SINGLE SECOND, HIPPY ZOMBIE, TV DRIVEN scum.
*spit*
Move away from parents an’ get a fuckin job, don’t tell me you think they actualy enjoy spending rest of their lives with you, supportin you with what they earn while you gonna pick clothing and smoke ganja.
You heard of healthcare? What it grows on trees? Is it free as well? Should it be? Should I work for free FOR YOU , MIKE? Like your parents are?
And they chosen it, so you gonna do the same for your kids? Man wish I could introduce yo to the Balkan specials: ethnic cleaning. while thinking of the chain of people you’re about to leave in this planet once getting that stick out of your fist, Mike.
Oh sorry. I haven’t realize. You give it for free.
It’s ok Mike, it’s,, it’s ok. There are other prostitutes doin it as well, simply enjoying to PROVIDE. :P
Stupid bloody Mike_students. There’s 4,000 of us at that building and a fistfull of staff including the teachers. An you can’t bloody take over.
As stupid you are, you’d probably start to throw stones at the building since haven’t yet discovered verbal communication [scrool up to the stand straight vs club logo rant part].
Hi, my name is Mike. This is Mark and that is Jenny. We represent the vast majority of 500 students willing to work and study. Have some demands blah blah. Only after you’ve heard, recorded, and ready to give the media the recording of the communication with the officials you may proceed to more radical approaches eventualy, indeed cracking some heads and burning the property of state and NOT! Because you’ve seen it on TV.
Neo-anything or anything at all is NOTHING unless you proove it. Takes time, sacrifice and hard work, money even. TIME invested in it.
And do it fast and rapid and brutal and strong since if they bring the law, jus any law up, it’s getting over 400% harder to fight.
Yeah I know Greek students dig this, tho Mike obviously is not, provocative svain, even put a shield on like every good riot cop, distancing himself from it all in case his ignorance is being transposed, so he said: for US FOREIGNERS. Making that us lookin like its both united states and us fucking cop pig, know what you are Mike, shooked your sleep a bit, now?
Tell your famous intelligent partner to take over. *spit*
Bloody coppers. Wanna get over here? Undereducated scumbags opressin people who want to work and earn for their living.
Once the police academy is syndicated you gonna get whipped out jus like that , illiterate mofos. Some cops actualy bother to educate above the baton usage. And some students do educate above phone answering, watch out for getting a message on the radio dispatcher to drive yourself to the alley, you never gonna forget. Ever. Retards.
Students hold everythin, man. Communication skills, tech labs, chemical labs, athletes, militant, once explained and to understand what they may do to improve the society you’d wish you never came here in the first place and be happy to only find yourself as an obsolete human resource of the previous system to be overtaken and put where it belongs according to it’s own skills, and education and time invested in work.

Monkey

Answer to Monkey

Baz 21.Jun.2006 03:34

I agree with Monkey on several aspects of his comment, even if i would not have expressed myself with the same enthusiasm. In any event, I agree that educational system has some time and money boundaries that need to be dealt with. I am a foreigner too, Italian. I have little knowledge of the Greek system, but apparantly it has the same illnesses of the Italian university system. I attended university in Italy and agree with the spirit of Monkey's criticism. The actual university system in Italy is in a sense as permissive as the greek one. I do not mean to promote the dismantling of the actual regime of as free as possible education, or the free access promoted in both my country and in Greece. However I also think we should consider the results, which unfortunatle are not necessarily good, at least in Italy. I agree that putting boundaries such as time limits is essential and gives more credibility to the students and the university institutions as well. Unfortunately it is always difficult to implement a reform. But, as far as Italy is concerned, I sometimes think that there is some sort of responsability of the institution as well. University in Italy costs, not that much but it costs, even if tuition fees are calculated according to your revenu. However I wonder whether having students for 10 years is not convenient for the university as well as they got paying users for all that time. So in this case for instance, who should promote a sensible reform: the students, which, for a misunderstood concept of freedom or of free education, would want unlimited everything? or the university itself, which has possibly garantied money for a long time?
This is just an exemple which might seem over simplifying the problem. But it is an aspect of the problem.

RE: Gaz

monkey 21.Jun.2006 10:45

tech1_skool
tech1_skool

tech2_skool
tech2_skool

tech_3_skool
tech_3_skool

M to Baz
Hi Baz. My enthusiasm comes from overstress working as one of the industrials inside the university @ the end of the first academic year after the Educational Declaration from Bologna got adopted. Know how to deal with stress though seriously to calm myself need to animate sequences in Deus Ex and line some people out in front of the shotgun after getting home.
Perhaps my reply would have been different 5, 6 months ago though have been following student uprising in France as well which we should definitely keep mentioning, perhaps even analyze as connected to the situation in Greece.
What realy angered me and still is, having to meet students not being able to define the word. Student. Not that they won’t realize the benefits they gain for free (health, social care, travels *(inter-rail tickets for instance), discounts), etc. man they even wouldn’t know what health care stands for. They know it’s something to do when you’re ill you go to doctor and get some papers and.or receive treatment, however, finding out how it works remains a mistery.
As far as vast majority of students are concerned, being a student is like a cool badge or a stitch on your bag, nothing more.
It’s extremely busy for the staff and industrials to work during system change. More difficult it gets as the obsolete staff (trust me this word is not harsh as all), doesn’t’ want either to leave/change their jobs or job positions they hold nor they think of (not even remotely consider) qualifying/educating themselves for the ‘new’ system demands. So need to take these protests in Greece with a precaution as I’ve stated in my first post. These are not similar with the French one since the French were about and on a completely different track and I have fully supported them. (.gov of french wanted to impose a law which actualy put limits on student rights (student employment), proposing all under 26 could be sacked from their jobs leaving it upon the employer to decide). Have supported the cause even wanted to get over there or help in any way since there you had students who actualy bothered to work while studying while over here you get students who can’t even define what students are (?!).
Greek protests however are so complexed as they would be over here if inspired due to a *within students* clashes which is the reason the bulleted list of proposals is even to a fair degree contradictory to anyone paying attention to it and bother to read it. What you get is a great amount of persuaded, PERSUADED (no less) students to prevent the change.
What we got over here *Croatia* is the multiownership I’ve mentioned amongst an entire instutution (administrationteachersstudentsstaff) just that the very ‘multiownership’ is a conditional term since there is no paper stating so (everythin still belongs to state) and what you have is a no less yet a frontline and a constant arbitraging, trust me, you need to arbitrage for a line in front of a candy machine, si , so imagine the stress and imagine the diversions by the students infiltrated inside having IQ on the minus side and while at it, check the last pre-fall term politics currents over here, minestry of Family *yeah I know, unfortunately there is such minestry here, we tend to laugh tho its’ beyond dark since the entire title of the minestry is: MINESTRY OF FAMILY, WAR VETS AND IN-BETWEEN GENERATION SOLIDARITY. (?!) Jadranka Kosor (the minister) has signed in over 200 students (freshmen) without any qualification tests so imagine, Baz. Imagine. Imago! Add all the staff and students from the previous beauty of the system at the end you have 25 of us vs coupla thousands of zombies, no less. You’d work your sould out to accomplish things for students, as what is the Industrial job description in the first place and then you get to read things suchas this, trust me, we get people in the media constantly pushing everything step back. I mean, it’s like 60 years of communism + 15 years of Neo-nationalism and 1 year since the EU Avis. Candidate status.
There’s.. Baz forgive me for being rather long, I jus need to say this to someone. There’s students actualy to worship communism fighting the neo-nationalism and vice versa, rest of them to believe there’s only 2 options for the clash not realizing they’re givin power to each one. Horror, Baz. 3 of us founded guerilla organization back in 1999. Me in prison since 2000th, two of them founders since 2002. Two of us three had military training while Sasha, back in the days, was the president of the international association of the history students. We tend girls not to get in trouble. (nothing above the psychiatric department for the girls, that is the org rules).
It’s just the fistfull of us so the fist has to ‘full’ if you’d follow which I’m sure you do. I got 6(6x2) yrs for murdering one of the cops burstin in squat in the middle of the night. Tonch and Sasha got 4 (4x2) for assisting my escape to no less Italy, 2001.
Anyway, to conclude. I’m not against the free education *dunno why I even have to write this, just that you’d hardly find a skool that would be so wealthy it would provide people with free education.
We have an urgent demand for people using their brain and overall people who are in fact literate (linguistic (basic) + mime). Without that you have what has been goin on for 75 years non-stop => no progress since communication cannot be established due to NO LANGUAGE as such would have existed.
As it comes to EU monitoring the edu. System, I’d say they are monitoring my ass since haven’t seen much progress yet worked my soul out together with the minority of us from sector B actualy went ignored. There’s too much work. Like that movie ‘CUBE’, even the building is shaped as one. See. I can get radical and get some tech with me *(military training), get to proove things recorded. Though. The memory key with the data wouldn’t get on the network, no way so yeah, it is all in the interest of the corporative capital and me is actualy workin’ for Asian Dub Foundation so imagine. Try to get on their chat and you gonna get my grift. I’m bloody censored which wouldn’t be the case if workin’ for Bratislava Cheese Factory or Moscow Pencil Store… You’d get to meet people working for Chanell, though, they’d collect the information, everythin’ they’d earn would show up as new computers for instance or a new set of chairs, etc. I’m for the any sort of equipment and believe staff replacement should be priority.
However, youd get to collect devastating info on a certain teacher. Get it out there all properly enveloped *(to speak so) and in return you’d get the usual denial of all that and a new PC. Who the hell needs a pc anyway, not like 10% of people actualy know how to use it not to mention Croatian bloody web development. Air Conditioning, piles of boxes once to store Intel *(most expensive) tech, printers, tvs, laptops and those given to bloody students who can’t read a goddam sentence. As far as I’m concerned each household should have not 1 yet 2 stationary computers, tho that’s not the issue here.
Work of an industrial get’s realized with material crap while we should employ skilled staff who would teach people to use those machines or whatever in the first place, tho trust me, they SORTED THIS OUT. Things for be the worse, they even got people to teach basic computing, etc. and if you’d see the way it’s done you’d, Gaz, you’d puke your gods out.
It’s tragic. Sometime March.April I get to clairvoyantly proove the OSystems (got a degree in cybernetics) can’t possibly log on google.com. which is a major fault. I get to bloody prove it, none of the students actualy bother to go to google.com they’d jus google thru the default system setting which was google.hr. I proove it and korse, demand the engineer reposnsible for this tragedy get’s sacked an I get to see him every and each bloody day after it, what they’ve done is get to hook up 4 computers in the hallway that work on Linux which should be amusing or something…
Wat kinda Linux is it , is the right question since, if youre using it, you won’t be able to log in Yahoo Beta mail provider, which reminds me of another e.mail should have been written over 1 month ago tho I’ve been timed-out off that project for 45 days.
Tho suss this out. The guy who is teaching the information science in the building is Miroslav Tudman no less [check about on who he is and who his dad was], And if you’d go to a library youd get to see that equipment provided by the industrial work, illegaly opened. Modified, marked, and system adopted (not to get confusing with terminology), the faults are as with google.com scam only considering hardware. So you realize there are educated people there since are modifying hardware settings and using magic markers over *ORIGINAL* = EXPENSIVE hardware bar codes to make, dear Gaz, no less yet to make an entire transparency or work about to be done @ their machines illegal since they’ve messed up both hardware and softw.
Gotta take a piss, brb, hey thanks for showin up with understanding. :)
Oh, in case anyone’s payin attention, since the bribery went large I could use a new SIM card for my mobile, preferably VIP-Vodafone with Samsung support, plain, no images, since I could use a work related phone directory instead of havin phone/card memory might as well have phone/card memory for projects outside secondary occupation and an additional card memory (SIM) for work related projects, korse via alter network *ViP*.
Might as well spare me with a discrete plastic holder for the SIM chip that wouln’t be in the ph. At the point of using an alternative one? :)
(that is if you can’t provide with release dates for Sasha).
Yah, so anyway, about the staff replacement which is percieved as priority from here. From my (and then back to Greek currents), from my personal reasoning, unskilled staff is eating everyones time. Together with nerves, most imortand underlying: unskilled staff cannot possibly produce skilled staff. (or not to offend Mikey hippy_ unskilled staff is unable to show the right path and The candle light towards the bonefire enlightement :p). ,bloody tech. won’t help without both knowledge of proper application of tech.achieved results and educated teachers.which asks for recognizing some user levels and standards as well, user IDs, together with device IDs, nothing is being done about that not even considering of being brought up. To the students, this is not to have been expected have either learned, or god forbids to have learnt during highschool education, nor , as to gather from some of the teachers, during their higher education as well. It is NOT, repeat and have stated in my oral presentation @ Philo-Terminology, NOT a necesity, though if using tech. during your classes you better learn how to use it or jus skip it, however, to UNDERSTAND it, not bein’ an expert of it, jus bare naked understanding of education (humanities) applied technology is obligatory, no one could argue this.
So as it comes to greece is more similar to what is happening here rather than what has happened in France so weel more than welcomed to speak out more since actualy working within the .edu system.

fuck the police

phil 21.Jun.2006 21:41

your laws sound anachronistic. everybody knows that we are attempting to live by the US model in new Europe! education for those who can afford it, health for those who can afford the insurance, and bombs for anyone who doesnt! hehe

i've cut my bloody finger typin one armpirate

monkey 22.Jun.2006 02:48

cichy
cichy

ok. Anachronistic? Whos laws?
Oh the greek student counter law proposals, right.
New Europe? You have to be having the EU enlargment process on mind. Well, europe is changing within seconds if there is such thing as Europe, politicaly, in the first place, would argue that there is. To join europe or join the european union are usual motivation sentences not stating anything in particular. You don’t actualy join either. Not as an individual nor as a country.region(political),sector, city. You may join sollutions (social,enviromental, justice) a certain political representatives are providing you with through their business, social, market projects. There are many of those representatives and untill you realize that you realy should be joining Europe and joining the European union with the rest of the sheeps just as you would be opposing it.
However, as opposite to uncle Mike from United States comes to Europe and invests in hay and socks or whatever, having a parliament, it’s ministers and council does ensure some level of transparency and law within the application of sollutions, however, if to realize you just got yourself coupla millions of sheeps *which, amongst other things, do not understand the law or able to deal with terms suchas parliament, council (due to their 10 year higher education), you jus gonna… you know… butcher them and eat them. Put it this way. A metaphor. I got 1 gramm of weed, 1 gramm of heroin and a kilo of fresh cut lawn grass.
And there’s 100 junkies out there (sheeps). I’d slice the kilo so I get ½ kilo of pure lawn grass and sell it to 80 junkies ONLY after they would look 10 of them sharing 1 gramm of weed they’ve both never tasted nor seen b4 in their lives. Another 10 would strongly oppose using of those herbs and I’d give the 9 more to have ½ kilo lawn grass in stock while 1 one have a gramm of heroin and, you guess, rule.
If there’s some trouble with it all, just kill the 10 who are opposing it. See, you got 100 (or 90 if you eliminate the 10) sheeps. And only one junkie whois suchabitch he/she needs to support it’s bad habbit makin sure and pressuring it’s ‘EU’ allies to provide with either lawn grass, weed or heroin, of course not realizing it’d depened on his obayance, since, nevertheless, he is ‘The God’ on heroin.
Btw, the God hasn’t been that stupid so he shared some of the heroin with the 10 people that got eliminated, since no one would actualy oppose anything without persuasion or a long term persuasion (brainwash). Also has scared the rest of not to touch his powder s**t.
So yeah. Placebo junkies. Xcept for the rebels, they have to be tear provokingly assuring for the next generation of rebels.
This is the basic explanation of post communist systems. However, it is just a sketch. For the insight, you need to check the value relations of lawn/weed/none/heroin usage and define ‘none’ also check if people dig smoking lawn grass is beyond stupid.
Once sorted that out, it won’t be applied to an entire country. Best case a city or only it’s part. So, as seen in this way, it might not be so bad to actualy pay for some weed instead of smoking lawn grass tho it’d depend also set the real rebellion as opposite to drug-habbit inspired one.
Tho, getting something/ anything for free… Isnt’ that bit… stupid? Unreal? Fake? Doesn’t it seem that even though claimed to be free of charge, you would get to give something in return? Some irrelevant thing suchas grattitude? A smile, even>? Perhaps? Advertisment?
I’d hardly say anything is free tho I’d rather pay filthy dollars than smile while getting that paper and listening to those awfull clappings of people. Flowers and bad suits. Snobism. Man! I’d rather work my soul out to pay some money instead. HOWEVER. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE SMART AND HAVE POTENTIAL, THERE’S NO UNIVERSITY ON THIS PLANET WHO WOULDN’T WANT TO SEE YOU THERE offering smart loans you don’t need to pay back. Of course, you would have to appreciate things suchas part time job, a yoghurt, cheap office supplies *untill you get to afford, etc. The more ‘smarter’ you get, more support you gonna get, unless, you haven’t been too smart in Romania or Russia or Burma or Croatia. If you’d get too smart over here you’d get to learn about the prison. Period. Those countries and many others need stupid people to prevent civil advancment on/in any field possible. So yeah, drop the bombs, I’d even step in front outside and open my mouth in waiting for the smart one. (bomb).
If you are ready for work, and show enough responsibility you gonna get to study for minimum or no money at all. It does not matter at all where you actualy study xcept it wouldn’t be so reccomendable to study inside a war-zone or a politicaly unstable city if not ready for at least a prison sentence and have dealt with it b4 entering that Faculty. Since there’s no chance youd be either expressing your attitudes nor contribute with any sort of discoveries as a foreigner xcep perhaps when becoming an expert, you’d find yourself working 20 hours a day locked inside somewhere no one to find you yet getting’ a damn idea you’re doing pretty well all together. ‘Nothing to do now than to just wait for the order of authorities and relax.’ Sentence bouncing your head when you start to doubt something might be wrong, how the hell allasudden I got satisfied with lesser and lesser. I work entire day for a sandwich and an apple. Somethin’ must be wrong lemme switch the tv on. Oh no! I’m… I’m doin fine the others eat only dirt.
Oh right, forgot to mention, you don’t really HAVE TO become a person holding a university degree. Tell me you knew that.
And first and last of all, the riots in france were not about the students yet about the Industrials amongst them 22 onwards, hence under 26 law order. Students have joined, however so have the syndicates.
Industrials are not payed large summs so need to have a second job to support themselves largly. It’s jus people working with the educational institution for coupla more years after graduated (till they start to look too mature to be mistaken for students), help improve the skools, connect people, help the students with the time scheldule, jobs, etc. or even get to recruit for job positions @ companies, corporations, etc. They shouldn’t realy work at student’s facilities suchas libraries, reading rooms, clubs, etc. since it’s where students themselves should work if their property. Industrials are needed to guide students as to prevent test/score cheating, and students may use them as reflection to value onselves work during study discretely to avoid calculations of scores. (group or individual)
Industrials also are there to gently or roughly tell students that they’ve failed tests which may be quite a disturbing disovery for some (xcept for Mike who has all the time in the world to complete his courses).

don twist my words man an don cut me. im not some US bitch. nor YOU bitch.

Education Laws 101

Mark Doherty alias Vedran Skocen (monkey) 23.Jun.2006 13:27

Here’s some of the laws. Debate.
You may not share the test or exam questions with someone once you’ve taken a test since it eliminates the questions for the students who haven’t took the test/exam in the 1st or 2nd elimination round.
It is a great penalty for a student. Not going to influence his or hers test.exam results yet would provoke severe discipline measures since the tests and especialy exams have been invested a great deal of time in creating. First look naïve questions do demand a long work time-investment so penalties vary from either expelsion of a student or socialy-benefited work for the time of studying with the work’s time scheldule depending on current damage + the damage expectancy [gossip circulation, put it lower] and the students information shared with statements.
Beyond doubt, both interrogation plus an investigation is inevitable.

Go Greeks!

zlotnik 30.Jun.2006 19:59

Wow. Current Greek education law seems so liberal. It would be a shame if it was corrupted by the proposed law.
From a Russian point of view the freedoms you enjoy are pretty much unheard of. For example, here if you fail a course once, you are screwed. You get kicked from the university and will have to start anew (and this time, on a paid-for basis) if you want to continue your education. It's a question of model though, and not that crucial. Most marvellous is the police bit though. Here in Russia, in my university, a couple years ago a number of my friends were repeatedly robbed BY the police, at knife point. On university grounds. Beyond a guarded gate. Such encounters are considered more or less normal here. Not extraordinary at least. Grant the cops more freedom and THAT's what you'll get. And much sooner than you expect.

stay_in_russia

monkey 07.Jul.2006 07:38

Jus stay in Russia. I don't believe anyone needs you anywhere. That is untill you develop literacy. Or try Kazahstan. You might get appriciated over there, specialy after their latest urgent demand for cattle salesmen.
Korse, not to mention not a single second of the reports from Greece have yet breached out in the mainstream media (or, as it is in Russia _> the only media), your encouragement has engaged with most of them students as you seem to be so familiar with it all even from sucha distant country as Sovietska.
'If you fail once you're screwed.' -Perhaps yeah, only if you wouldn't have been screwed before even get to know the meaning of the word. Screwed. Screwed in the left arm with the needle my friend.
Jus stay in Russia and wait for the vacines. Won't be long. 80 years maximum.

monkey

russian_rebels

monkey 07.Jul.2006 08:04

I mean, aseriously, is anyone ever looking or ever has looked @ the map?
Russia. So who the hell may came up with a word-phrase: russian rebels?
Who the hell they rebel against if so controlled, so controlled, that the very control is provoking the rebellion in the first place?
Jus look at Zlotnik.
'Go greeks?' ?!
Go greeks what? Perhaps there's people (probably) died there, injured, seems like asome football match no less to Zlotnik. Dig, actualy, expressing your wish to transfer to Russia and go study history over there. (god what a grim I jus had on my face)
Hitler: bad. Stallin: bad. Marx: good Cold_war: we all made mistakes. Checenya: bad
Putin: ok
in short. Russian pocket history.
Russian_Rebels. Who would those be?
Let me tell you. Extremely wise people who went abroad and never came back. And once abroad the only thing they seeked for is vacines to get their organisms to function properly and remove the blocks out of the system. Complete scan check for electronic component device implants and receiving vacines. Then you may consider rebellion or preferably get to taste food for the first time in your life.
I don't even want to imagine or share (of what I know) is Russia like while living on the East_Block border which is inimaginably horrid. [gaza]
There's no other approach than the brutal one. People want to die, that's how horrid it is. However, if you take a brutal approach, they might consider defending themselves (seeking for a chance/life<-step_forward), though it has to be extremely brutal due to the opression they've dealt with so far.
Jus, no one understands a goddam thing. That is, only military does, so, if you get understood you are screwed, definitely. You not gonna get awarded by the council or minestry of education or science, you gonna get jailed, god knows where, not even you would know. Jus imagine the number of people from around the globe gettin to talk Russian, living there, with poision running thru their veins and a tiny device attached tock-ticking in them.
About the resistance. Outnumbered is not the right word. The mission lasts minimum half a decade. Deeper you go, it prolonges. There's missions in Russia lasting for over 20 years. No one ever heard back from those people.
There's no maps. AS nowhere, so not for Russia as well.
need a drink. brb